Inside Story : ALJAZ : April 19, 2024 3:30am-4:01am AST : Free Borrow & Streaming : Internet Archive (2024)

of the brazilian amazon sienna, monique, people, the far as the planet ecosystem, with a counter offensive is under way of the tribal chiefs had to your gold cloud corridors of power. not to seek help, but to demand the world to see the warnings of its indigenous people. holding up the sky, a witness documentary on the jersey, the aiming to end divisions in somalia. federal leaders are invited to discuss and security and constitutional changes. but with some of the politics so deeply fragmented is national unity possible. and what role does some of the as neighbors play in achieving a more peaceful future? this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much i'm shown. so malia has long been one of the world's most divided nations government leaders, and they'll get issue have struggled for decades to a certain story in many parts of the country. the power vacuum has left somalis with little help as they suffer from drought famine and alarm the groups now president has on shifting how much has called a meeting of regional leaders, amy to confront the challenges. so what are the main obstacles preventing the country from coming together and can they be overcome? we'll go to our panel and just a few moments, but 1st fenton on has this report. somali as president says, he's looking to bring his country together. for some shape, mohammed has called a meeting of regional leaders with the name of healing divisions involved. the world's most divided nations in somalia, civil more or less the collapse of the central government and 1991. the country has been fractured ever since the success of administration struggling to assert their authority. the power vacuum has given rise to our groups, such as our ship, bob,

it's fighters regularly carry out a tax further undermining stability. and the rule of law widespread food shortages before the series of droughts. for the 3rd of the 17000000 population struggles to get enough to eat. and nearly 4000000 are displaced with many seeking refuge abroad . the northern state of portland is a main player in any bid to restore stability. the oil rich region has been sent me a ton of us since 1998. well recognize the central government in the capital of mogadishu relations have broken down in the past year. put the leader side up to law. he denny projects. the proposal by the somali parliament to change the constitution and overall the electoral system is also pursued trade ties with neighboring, ethiopia, somalis present oppose that for undermining his authority. a national unity. the upcoming meeting of regional leaders is a chest of men, ties and work together towards a better future. overcoming divisions will be an essential step in somali is to

confront the many challenges facing at vince mullin, elda 0 for inside story, the. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guests in minneapolis in the united states. i think it might have some a tar is a so molly senator for some of the land and became a capital nairobi theater. and me is a research professor at the city university of mogadishu. and in my put to capital most i'm big on my, my mode is the senior analyst for eastern africa at the international crisis group . a warm welcome to you all. thanks so much for joining us. today on inside story, if you already let me start with you today, how much is writing on this upcoming national consultative meeting in ken, this meeting actually lead to finding solutions to somali as multitude of problems . uh, thank you. on how much i'm thank you to the guests as well. i just wanted to start with the background of what is happening now. this meeting is coming right

after sean process of going to solution making. where did that come into the government to actually unilaterally a created or made its own constitution? data reflects it's, it's interesting some priorities. so for batteries and actually they wanted to have some buy in for these leaders who in the 1st place have given some endorsem*nts to the current process. so that's basically, they're coming back and maybe re examining, already evaluating to the processes that they have impacted on about a year and a half ago. and i guess what are the stake now is the problem is given to the leaders for you that extension or set of selection in regards to the in direct the election is that they are expected to go through. so there are more or less i think uh, the process where just

a very few leaders are coming together to to, to design their own system. the benefits done. uh, uh, id. let me ask you, uh, you heard there from a few all right. who was talking about this being a difficult process. uh, fraud with complications um this meeting is being heralded as a chance to overcome differences. there's a chance to work towards a better future from your perspective. can that be achieved or are there just too many problems? because you have to be with you and greetings to my come ready to cut off yet. and i think he's absolutely correct. so as a member of parliament, as a senator, i can speak with some degree of assorted temper to tennessee in stating that it's a sham process. that the president is trying to sort of important one or the people the size about the project that's going to lead to a dictatorship. so i wrote

a book called off because 1st democrats and somebody should know what democracies this is, the 1st country in the continental classic posting dependence. that had a series of democrats convictions and change of government. so we know what that he's as a member of upon that long time as a senator, i can tell you the sort of the quite clearly that when we 1st met us mom complimentary and just to examine this process, we were suppose to have a document to that to provided the protocol as to which the process when the goal before we get to the constitution, it's something that sort of has to be cut off the law house of putting a bunch of bodies in cahoots with jay, with the president decided to have it both without even distribute to the protocol for discussion. and then from there on the test at the national sit down here, he saw the cut president wants to have a constitutional process, which really got a lot of confidence for both international monitors. then this is nothing sort of

a batch will lead to that process because it's starting to corrupt it. the president has to ship the power of parliament as you ship the tunnels, copy of the cabinets and the prime minister, and is actually acting unconstitutionally, on the basis of that kind of constitution. so what, what do you give somebody people confidence that this project he wants, he is going to give them confidence that they will have a voice in the way in which the countries run. so the hard process, in my opinion as the medical, as a senator, is a sham omar. you heard there from lab. they are these saying that this whole process is a sham um, you know, a lot of critics are saying that the proposed constitutional changes, which include introducing direct presidential elections and allowing the president to appointed prime minister without parliamentary approval. uh, a lot of the critics are saying that that would cost straight power in the hands of

the executive. what do you say? how complicated is all this? we know politics and somalia of course is very complex. i've complicated is all this. how fraught with difficulty is going forward? well, i think there's a deep history here that we also have to remember. you know, there, there's a stronger version in somalia to the concentration of power in the hands of one particular individual or the parents bear up. and a lot of this is the hangover of the military dictatorship as the bar in the 19 seventy's and 19 eighties and as frost, as somali politics has been over the past, you know, 2 decades or so. since the reconstitution of a central government there's been 2 key principles. i think that that have kind of underlined governance. and you know, one is, is a federal model and one is the parliamentary system. and so the problem with the, with the constitutional changes, the way you know, some of them are being basically construed right now, is it challenges some of those, some of those dynamics the, um and then, sorry, we don't opposition. feels that the government's basically designing the process

and you know, to, to benefit them and override in some of these principles. i think the issue is the level of inclusivity. you know, there's key constituents uh, you know, one particular member of state in portland hasn't participated in the, in these processes to date. and, and so, you know, to have a more viable document going forward and to avoid it. you know, any, any risk of a backlash from that? i think there does need to be a bit more of a in can split inconclusive process. a few. all right. what are some of the other opposite goals at play here that have kept the country from coming together that have kept everybody so divided across the political spectrum a well, i guess the, the, the source of the problem is that the kind of rigidity is, has impacted on from the get go, i went up next or where basically the room that some house, regardless of both of different groups, came to follow but eventually refused to share power. i think that's one of the,

a big problems. the other, maybe a serious issue here is that the whole state, but the project is, uh, is, is, is, is we're approaching the event. so way, normally you establish a photo to the starting or disagree with the institution is on unpack station on police and all of these things. and then after that, the rule of law, institution is and then we have democratic accountability and institution to so basically, what do we have now is our political elite liberty defy the liberty for our mentor? as it is, is more or less interested in grabbing to power on somehow uh uh, it'd be totally using whatever, whatever they're getting out of it. so basically i would say like, we have the zoom davis on the 2nd. we are also having some problems with this incomplete political settlement that somehow needs to be an expanded

by adding a new forces. so my, that i'm maybe booked around and i that is, it seems that the way we're going now is exclusive, exploding even some forces that i've already been present. i'd be a few already there mention points. lyndon, i wanted to ask you about them because the semi autonomous state appointment, they say that they withdrawn from the countries federal system and the punishment will governance of independently until constitutional amendments passed by. the central government are approved in a forthcoming nationwide referendum. i'm. i'm curious to know a little bit more about this. why exactly did they withdraw? what specifically did they object to and how much does this development threaten unity? i think there are 2 things to note to you and about the process. i think on one hand, the claim they made that they had withdrawing from the process, not from the country,

but from the process is legitimate to because the president then it's just a small group of parliamentarians including they speak, i have hijacked that process. so that's the 1st thing. i think the president was to follow the procedure that has been laid for forming the constitution, the folks and put it on would have had no leg to stand on in terms of the claim that they had with joy. so the question is, what they should rather than support from the claim bar shots from from cannot suggest that even the process was as has been agreed to before when they would have passed all then they wouldn't be a partner see that project. so i think the process that i feel is absolutely correct, that the president you saw sort of that committed and blindly committed to grabbing as much power as he can. and that the fuel and the neighbors to the regents at all . no additional. basically they have not my choice deadman over that he thinks we can't drive trucks at all. so everybody can show this imagery too much on the part

of pointed out to say, no, we have to stop the process, make it inclusive. and i would like to speak about inclusivity amber. the president says, no, no, no, no, we are going to do that. mm. hm, and that's the 1st thing i want to address this question. i've been pushing that to that are 2 ways in which it off. somebody's can be included this process. that's to say that com since and then needs out addresses legit. so that's one way to do it. that's what a democratic project aides me the other way. as far as, as far as the comp process that we have been engaged as a country which states we have divided into particular groups. finally saw everybody and that's what are we supposed to have the same idea of the same interest, which is b s, in my opinion. and i'm so addressing the common needs a whole united people education security handles employment. that's what we bring people to get that. so let me just give you an example. there was a, assess what the senate in the house, what i am

a member all. what's that i sort of are going to, and i hired a few, you know, live on the staff members of the process was saw divisive on colorado that they said no, no, no. well, if somebody could just kind of compete for this memory, particularly sort of a geological group after some like a dash. and so individual william, somebody's who don't quote unquote, have friends in part of the month. i'm not trying to compete that these are exclusive as a hide. and so we have to get back to the idea of the fundamentals of democracy on accountability and give our people the whole point of the desire they show the actual home for unless that's done, this process will ensure cachet again and again in the country, we go nowhere walmart, so if portland, which as we mentioned is semi autonomous. uh, if they would have to be a main player in efforts to restore stability going forward. do they have to participate in in this meetings?

it's coming up the national consultative meeting because it has been reported that an invitation was sent to portland's leader, but it's unclear if he would participate if he does not participate. and if there is already skepticism, as we've heard on this panel about what that meeting can achieve, what does that mean? well, portland hasn't been participating in these meetings for over the past year. you know, it was january of last year where they kind of at 1st basically said they were suspended and they're, they're large as a patient. and the latest announcement that they made, just ask for the constitutional review process for the 1st 4 chapters included was basically an extension of that and, and, and almost height and the rhetoric about it. but followed on what they had already basically said. so now i don't expect for man to be participating in these meetings . i mean what that means going forward is, you know, i think for mans raised some of their concerns. uh, these aren't fundamental concerns. these are recurrent concerns. a comes back to this tension about what exactly is the vision for federalism and some of the are going for, you know,

programs always viewed itself as sorta as long as the mother of federalism within somalia and protector of it. are they then bedded causes in their own constitution base a great to that effect? and so, so i think that, you know, them not participating in the process is, is a concern going forward. it means that there needs to be a dialogue between, you know, the small, the government can put, man, you know, uh, you know, come on sending this out to, you know, need to hear kind of what the reasons are. both sides need to very clearly a non ca, those and discuss of going forward how can you can overcome them? but the problem is that dialogue is not really happening right now. the problem is, ties politically at a personal level is also gotten quite bad. and so the distance is very large. oh more. let me also ask you about the fact that, you know, all of this is happening at a time when there's great tension between somalia and ethiopia. if you'll be a, has been trying to strengthen relations with some all the land and with portland, what's at the heart of these disputes? well, i mean essentially, you know, and they will be up ended politics. and in this part of the world with this whole

memorandum of understanding, they came to it some of the land at the beginning of the year over over c access. and that was something, some of the, a reactive quite strongly to given that, you know, they view it as an affront to their sovereignty. and, and so those tensions have been fully subsided. you know, that's, that's a memorandum, you know, i think it was the declaration of intense more than anything we haven't seen a ton happen in terms of implementation side. and, you know, i think it's the only is almost playing a double game here. you know, trying to balance its desire for c access, you know, so, so disagreement with kind of the consequences that might have for its relationship with mogadishu. now this is intersecting with, i think, domestic somali politics because any time you have such strong disputes within, within somalia, you have consistency starting to look at abroad, you know, starting to look outside the country for support and, and whatnot. and so what we saw just recently was, you know, a reaction to this where full man held a meeting with with you will be an official and somalia, very quickly responded by

a young spelling the basically open and boss or, and ordering the consulate in the lab and, and some of the ran to, to close. so, you know, i think that that's clearly, you know, domestic angle to that, but it's intersecting with these regional politics that have been up and to some of the unresolved m. o, you have your, i saw you're reacting to something what omar was saying there, so i'll let you jump in. but i also want to ask you about, you know, from your perspective, what role cancel molly? as neighbors play in achieving a more unified and a more peaceful future. let me 1st and start with the case i've been planning on. i agree with professor stomach that both of them has had some legitimate grievances against the process. that kind of the process. of course, different making, but uh, i guess what is questionable is action is that it's meters to afterwards. i think they could have expressed it better this content with, with the show in other ways with respect to, to own where is position. oh, i mean, explanation. i agree with him, it's sylvia has been

a spoiler into somebody is making for the past 20 plus. yes. it, it has been meddling, creating more, more supporting with weapon to see them there. i know it's expansion is emissions to, to, to grab somebody. territories has been, uh and he didn't actually operate uh, going on in the past, claiming the whole country's of either somebody line or the but i do so basically it will be, it has never been genuine. or i mean uh, uh, interested in pieces somebody, they want to just a week um, friendly and define it. uh, kind of fit them in, in, in, in, in the east. and that's what they have been working on. and this is not just district jim given in the bottom, it gives me id. i want to ask you about what omar and i were talking about a moment ago, which is the, the tension between e, c, o, p, a,

and somalia. and specifically, when it comes to what happened in between ethiopia, and so molly land, essentially, if you'll be a wants to set up a naval base there, how much is that in flaming of the current situation? i don't, i think it's because it's a factor in the current situation. i'm kind of situation speaking. okay. but the final one, i think my job and i just like kind of giving you a audience. so if you're around and besides to say, we want to have a quarter know too much and then to get the inside of the, you know, same as sort of a so degree that or so with the population will accept that. so thank you. okay, i'm 5 minutes. that inch pipe 3. if he's interested in having a commercial relationship with somebody that i'd wish to do that you've gotten to you, is this my boss? so can you? yeah, without claiming to put the neighbor base. i'm grab a 2015 kilometers on that kind of tony. ok. so that's the 1st thing to note. if you come back to the constitutional process, yeah. i think the hon or public

a country to sort of academia, you tube and to go to the immediate neighbors. i think the only country that has been genuine in helping somebody has put time to dumpster together is to be with $200.00, which is a small country and it's very little resources. so it just doesn't have the kind of a weight to make that over with materialize in the country. and it kind of goes into the sheets. county is claiming a part of somebody coastal tentatively as what does she remember that she wanted to add? typically today to national coach, which was, which was part of the somebody case about 5 months. and i'm so there is no reason for the 2 option probably manage that to make these sort of out to that strange. hm . that was cautioned relationships between the 2 countries. and up to people who have, who are going to be together forever and to find ways to work together without somebody actually. i mean, i do some about pointing to a piece of collecting barbara for that. and i can show it to you what the, what it,

what it shows here is that there are a lot of trouble cooking insight into a p. i gauge the prime minister that she wants to project to in the process of overseas. so that he come unified aid so can accomplish that behind this or but you know, there's a, all the kinds of evidence that's coming today is that they pretty much, i'm not able to travel outside of them. so become a us filings that sorta engender that price shop. i think you would, you would be the only feasible country in that region. that's genuinely impressed. it means somebody are coming back to get that as a sort of a country that's democratic to make omar. i want to ask you about a different aspect when it comes to this deal between ethiopia and, and so molly lined more specifically, does it have the potential to further the stabilize the one of africa and when it comes to the stabilizing factors, i want to ask you how much has the power vacuum and somebody are given rise to arm groups like i've shut up? yeah, i mean, i think one of the key ex factors here is the relationship between is he will be in

somalia when it comes to security. you know, whether that will continue and, you know, just to remember a year ago, we were talking about in this region of a front line states initiative. where basically, if you will be in kenya, but particularly, and you'll be always going to send tens of thousands of extra troops towed sites. i'll show up in somalia. and now or year later, you know, out on the heels of the sample you were talking about the complete opposite, you know, in, in mogadishu. the fear is that if you will be, is actually going to seize some of the land. and so i think that shows how quickly i fluid in the situation is and how quickly relations can turn. now the issue is, you know, if you will be a, is a security provider in somalia as, as current to, you know, it's both with the african union peacekeeping mission, which is supposed to be drawing down the troops to the end of this year. but a follow on foresight i would expect is likely, but also in a bilateral level. and so if you had do relations deteriorate to the point where there was a sudden withdrawal with those forces, you do have a vacuum. now can,

can some of you feel that vacuum with its own troops going to find other countries to fill the vacuum? what are the opportunity costs of that with regards to the offensive? it's trying to maintain in central somalia that, that it's been struggling with as well. but in any case, you would have a security document. i think that's where the concern is that the relationship doesn't deteriorate. to the point where the security cooperation is completely suddenly fractured a few. all right, we don't have a whole lot of time left, but i don't want to turn our viewers attention to another aspect of, of life and how difficult things are in somalia, which is a huge amount of terry and situation. millions of people in somalia struggle to get enough to eat widespread food shortages of followed a series of droughts. millions are displaced, how dire, currently is making mandatory and situation? well, that has been actually quite a bad in the last few. actually last 3 years, i would say on the, basically the, the, the side of things is that at any given time from 2011 from now, the number of people who are for the support have been an increasing,

it was for the media and $5000000.00 around 2011, and now it's close to a point $5000000.00. so basically we see that this food is security on, on, on, on the situation that is link it to the environmental slash climate change is really becoming a serious issue. by the way, the whole, i mean life is tired of that just link it to the nomadic life is style or, or boss to our lifestyle is collapsing in front of our eyes where we don't have any replacement or any government to the institution. does that kind of guide our society out of this problems of been flooded and drive it so it's actually serious and hopefully we're uh, the international community. when we would come to 8 id, we only have about 2 minutes left. i just want to ask politics in somalia are so fragmented, they have been for so long is national unity even achievable right now?

so things say i want to comment on the 1st thing is best on buy format. i don't believe if your p a is a security provided for somebody i think is actually what it does is to feed into a community. so the need for the piano transcripts remain solid. so that's the 1st thing. i don't want this other method of somebody. unity if you go across the country as i have done, and you've talked to all the people for all or watch as much school teachers, that farmers sort of americans. and so students, there is something that you shouldn't be letting me make about this country. and that's the desire of the people to get to come to their country back. that's the language to use. they want to get their country back. so if to leave this to share in the form of the president and the prime minister and the speaker found it on his, on a song, out of genuine eyeball dish. and the sort of ad to convey to the ideas that sort of ex, emanate from the local population students, farmers from cuz my tuesday at some point tonight and sort of attribute to dribble

that i think it to be as well. it to be easy process. but missing is the car for her to come. convictions seem to sometimes the whole much naturally guides process and then mobilize the population not. i'm going to come back to that after. what's it coming in? a way that could be marvelous, but also to address the kind of concepts, ecological concerns. i'm a journeyman for my training. i can tell you is that there is enough coaching that can be produced in this country without should go from outside from livestock to pos. essential on a source which should be the focus of all government. glad the playing be starting to come games that come ticklish the guy. what this because all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks. so much to all of our guess i've this might have some of the car off, y'all directed me and on more my us and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website obviously, or dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash age and side story. is it also during the conversation on x

r handle is at a inside story for me, how much from german, the whole team here. bye. for now, the god promised abraham, this is the land that is going to belong to you and to your children forevermore right here in my back yard sales. and our recent here, terrace realtors here just to make sure you know where you're at. central michigan, we have people here from united states, from russia, from india, from germany, to june, your findings for the idea of israel's foreign army on a just yeah, that's all i could say. now is the time to be direct. the creation of

a humanitarian crisis is a tactic. we do not is it was the policy that we was from us, particularly that was very upfront on out of their foster, a 10 year journey in which it has become the most important translation award from . i'm into the outer big language world wide. shea come out of ward for translation and international understanding of nonsense. the opening of the nomination period for the year 2024 starting march 1st. to may. 30 fast nominations are made on the award official website, w, w, w dot h t a dot q a forward slash e m. examining the headline. is it or is awfully today for the forms of life and unflinching journalism? awesome. every interview, just like the war sharing personal stories with a labor audience, only create a world where women come and feel natural released that trauma and creates explore

and abundance of world class programming on eligibility around the it's terry johnson and tell you how the top story is on alex's here not to states has veto the draft resolution of the un security council, which calls but palestine to become a full member states of united nations. 12 countries voted in favor and to epstein including the u. k. speaking off to using a veto, america's representative said, washington supports the 2 state solution, but claim that full of protestant and membership is not yet possible. since the attacks without tobar 7 present button has been clear that sustainable piece in the

region can only be achieved through a 2 state solution. with israel security guarantee there is no other path that guarantees.

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